Lets have a chat...

[Valk]

Zwmusic. :D

I have still half an hour for the drugs kicks in, so let it all out, may I say! :D

[Matt]

Narcotics?

[Clockers]

Kids these day i tell'ya. :lol:

[zwmusic]

:lol:

Sorry I didn't get here before, by now you must be real stoned. :lol:

[ownd]

i doubt its weed lol. Prolly some pill you popped. Have fun with what ever you did.

[wern]

Too much green tea again Valkie?

[Bobo]

:lol: He seems to be sleeping now.

[Valk]

It could've been so fantastic. :(

[zwmusic]

What's gone wrong?

[Valk]

Our talk didnt happen.

[zwmusic]

Sorry Valk, I got here a bit late.

[Valk]

No problemo. Is there anything you want to talk about?

The state of the world
The state of CC
The state of you
The state of me?

[zwmusic]

The state of the world... let's skip that.
The state CC... good as ever.
The state you... wasted? but how's life treating you?
The state of me... jumping up and down the place. Still busy but with no clear vision of what's waiting for me in the future.

[zwmusic]

Sorry once again buddy. I must dash off once more, we continue the chat later. Cheers Valkie.

[Valk]

The state me...not so good, but hopely I'll survive
The state of you...I believe you've been busy for quite some time now. Are you having problems? Financial, legal, spiritual?

[wern]

Valkster you must tell me what you took. Was it LSD? Mushrooms? Pills? :mrgreen

[Valk]

I had the "Cocktaile du Narcotices". :D

[Matt]

naughty.

[Bobo]

The last time someone tried to sell me drugs in Helsinki ended up in me chasing them with my fists waving in the air... and when they managed to get rid of me I kept on chasing them sitting in a police car trying to spot them in the crowd. :lol: No, wait... someone tried to sell me some crack in NYC, but it didn't feel safe to start chasing them there... just walked away. That was the last time, and the Helsinki incident was before that.

Why so angry towards drug dealers? I've lost some good friends to drugs. :x

[Valk]

Those friends had still the final say if they wanted the drugs or not.

[wern]

if you become an addict you can't resist drugs and so you don't have the final say

[Valk]

You shouldnt have started in the first place.

[Bobo]

It's always easy to say that, but drugs took their lives and sadly it will happen to thousands more, no matter what we say.

[wern]

You can't simplify it like that, Valk.

It's not like deciding whether or not to pull the trigger at a game of Russian Roulette. Drug addiction is a clandestine process that builds up gradually. And it builds off of almost genetic wiring that society implants in us. You think we have a choice?

You grow up learning how to become addicted to things. Our cultures and even some religions promote the drinking of alcohol. Many people have at least tried cigarettes. And most people drink coffee, tea or coca-cola. Alcohol, cigarettes and tea/coffee/coke and even some popular chocolate candies all contain addictive substances. The move up to harder drugs, starting with marijuanna, then moving on to antemphetamines and narcotics is a part of a circle of suffering that we are taught from a young age, starting from encouragement of use of addictive substances as kids.
So when exactly is it that we should say "no".

[BIGOKE]

Actually wern i feel that smoking, alcohol and drugs are derived mor from peer pressure than addiction. I remember that when I first started smoking and drinking it used to make me violently ill, but I persisted and eventually built a tolerance to getting sick and became addicted. Same happened with pot it did not agree with my system at first. I kept at it because my crew did it and didn't want to miss the fun. I gave it all up when I realised that life was passing me by and I wasn't achieving anything. Also ugly things used to happen in that mixed up state, like violence and general anti social behaviour. Kinda like living on the edge of society. Shit that sucks! Glad I gave it up before I graduated to crack and coke and shit. So I understand how Bobo feels. I had to leave a lot of "friends" behind because they refuse to see the light. But I'm glad theres guys at CC who are totally against it, and not judgemental about it.

[Valk]

I totally understand what you're saying Wern, but I still think we have a choice. I said no to caffeine, I said no to chocolate, I said no to coca-cola, I said no to cigarettes, I said no to cannabis and I said no to more lethal drugs. And with 'NO' I mean that I refuse to let it become a habit. Its not that I refrain from all those substancess, but I choose to use them only sporadic. I have friends who could have a bad influence on me, I've gone through things were I could've easily reached for the bottle or other narcotics. It was my own willpower that said no at those moments.

[Shane_Bos]

I can see where both sides come from but i agree with Valks arguments more. Everyone has free will.

[Bobo]

It's often easier to start using drugs than to get rid of them. Drug addicts are often guilty of the self-deception "I'm not hooked, I only use them when I want to, just for fun". When/if they finally admit they have a problem, it's already a too big problem they can't deal with alone, and often not even with help. Don't take this the wrong way, Valk, this is only my opinion: based on everything You've told us about Yourself and Your problems, I don't believe You to be strong enough mentally to be in control of the situation, despite the fact that You think so. You seem to be a bit depressed, and drugs don't mix with that too well. I might be wrong because I don't know You well enough, but I've seen that same story too many times... I hope You're an exception, I really hope my friend.

[Valk]

No harm taken. :wink: :x :wink:

I see you point very clearly but I must also say that: YES, I'm depressed and YES, I consume alcohol and drugs. But I dont use them to escape from things. I use them very sporadic (drugs once a month).
So I really have it under control, no need to worry about me. I know I lack self-confidence but I also know exactly what I want and what I dont want.
I understand your defensive attitude towards drugs, because a female friend had the same only then with alcohol. Her farther was a severe alcoholist so she looked at alcohol slightly different then the rest of her age.
There was a time when drugs was becoming quite a habit. I started to consume it several times a week. I brought me in a state were I felt good about myself. A better version of myself.
But then I realised my mistake and kicked the habit. I only use it sporadicly and for fun now.

[Bobo]

Keep it that way. If You feel You can't live without them, sporadic or not, get rid of them immediately. Remember this: the need for drugs isn't only controlled by Your mind, they're strong chemicals Your body will learn to demand, no matter what Your mind thinks. You may not be in as good control over them as You think, and a big sudden negative change in Your life could be a sad turning point if it happens unexpectedly. All it takes is a weak moment, and suddenly the drugs are in control, not You.

[Valk]

more negative changes???? PLEASE NOOOO!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :lol: :
wink:

[Bobo]

I don't mean to depress You, but life is sometimes a bitch. You don't want to be too involved with drugs then. I'm not judging You either, only trying to help. :D

[Valk]

If I want to escape I have other things to escape in: Raunchy sex with fat, black woman!!! :twisted: :twisted:
Okay, not really, but drugs doesnt have a 'healing' factor for me anymore.
I have other things to heal myself.

[Bobo]

For example, a deep conversation in CC perhaps? :mrgreen

[Valk]

Well, it certainly does help. :wink:

Just things that let your emotions out: (creating) music, art.
Drugs dont help you let your emotions out. With drugs you only supress them.

[Bobo]

Life is more than worth living with clear senses, all we have to do is learn to see the good things... sadly, we're often too blind to see our possibilities. Emotions, good or bad, are the spices in life that gives the colours... without emotions life would be all black and white. Drugs... we don't need them to feel alive, at least we shouldn't need them.

[wern]

Actually wern i feel that smoking, alcohol and drugs are derived mor from peer pressure than addiction.
I agree. My point was that society encourages the use of addictive substances. Peer pressure is an example of society exerting coercive encouragement.

Valk, I don't have a probelm with individuals taking drugs. As Shane said, you have free will. Therefore, you are held accountable for your actions. I have tried some things myself and have only held myself accountable and I don't think I have any regrets. But I always acknowledged that what I was doing was wrong and dangerous.

Bobo says he has tried things in the past that he regrets (ie smoking), and is now against it. Same goes for Bigoke. So as you can see there is support of my point that there is a "circle of suffering". By the time we become wise about things, another generation of users arrives, due in part to the input and validation we give to the drug culture (and society) through our use of drugs.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to be preachy. Just want to give you food for thought. And I also hope you are the exeption valk!

[Valk]

I refuse to have to defend myself!! Okay, NOT

I'm not a drug addict in any way. I use it for recreational purposes only.
If you use it sporadicly enough, it still has its fun and excitement factor.
I do not use it because I can't enjoy myself without it. I use it to experiment because I like to experiment with different things. Not only with drugs but with other things too.
As with all things in life: Keep it in moderation.
Drugs is a bit a taboo. All users are low-life junkies which just isnt true.
Take for example alcohol vs. cannabis. One is complete accepted, the other is not. And cannabis isnt as harmful as its made out to be.

[wern]

I agree with everything you have just said (except the personal stuff, becuase I don't know you personally).

[BIGOKE]

I respect all you guys and your opinions philosophies on this particular subject. I however have some resevations even about casual use. Its based on the following. Though we can use drugs and alcohol recreationally and have some fun the fact is, is that they alter your state of mind. By this i mean you are not the same personality sober as when drugged, or drunk or both. So really you can be any one of three or four different pesonalities depending on your choice of poison. Also your state of perception is influenced by your mood and circumstance at the time. So if you are happy you're likely to be more happy and if you are depressed you are likely to become more depressed. But you are prone to bravado and stupidity which you would not display if you remained sober. That is the reason i gave it all up because I didn't like my other non sober personalities. I like this sober self better. I find I ask myself less questions and I face up to life a lot better. I can now tackle difficult decisions instead of retreating from them.

[zwmusic]

Are you having problems? Financial, legal, spiritual?

Not exactly, but I would say my state of mind (spirit) isn't that great lately. I tend to get a little too depressive too quickly. I'll overcome it.

[Valk]

I sense you dont really want to talk about it so I can only wish you the best of luck.
Try to seek the things that makes life worthwhile and enjoy those. :P
AHHGGG! Look who's talking! :x

[zwmusic]

LOL. I think you know how to enjoy life.

[Valk]

I'm not depressed all the time, I tend to enjoy the little things in life.
Like a cute cat that crosses my path :puke: or a thunderous thunderstorm :twisted:

[zwmusic]

I understand what you mean, I try that sometimes but my mind seems to be stronger than my life. :x It doesn't live me alone. Bollocks.

But a thunderous thunderstorm is hardly "little". I could carry you out to sea...