The OFFICIAL Fight Thread

[ownd]

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5531/imageoftheweektonyfryklund5kt.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Seeing that their are a bunch of people with similar interest as mine in MMA, and anything to do with martial arts and fighting lets talk about it all here. Anything from your favorite fighter, your style, moves, preferences, experiences, upcoming fights, past fights anything you like, lets discuss here. :lol:

[MagnumXL]

Expirience - Muay thai 5-6 months, Boxing 7 months, Brazilian jiu jitsu 1 year - 5x a week

Favorite Art - Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Favorite Technique in a fight - Thai clench + knees + elbows

Biggest fight celeb met yet - Royce Gracie

Most people knocked out in 1 day - 4

Favorite fighter - Sakuraba, Hunt, Noguera(however u spell his last name)

CANT WAIT FOR THE NEW PRIDE WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ownd]

Ill start first giving a lil background of myself and my prefernces in styles and fighters. My favorite fighters are Wanderlei Silva in the stand up game, and he has an underrated ground game btw. For ground and BJJ i think NOG is by far the most superior. Crocop is sick as well and you cant forget about Captain American Couture with his sick take downs. Also vitor belfort in his prime days was sick.

Hmm, ive been training in a few diff styles for about 5 years now. My background is BJJ so i am a ground fighter at heart, and feel most comftorable there. I have done boxing on and off for a few years, and in the past year have incorporated Muay Thai obviousley into my arsenal lol. Hmm what else i think what i need to work on more is my take downz cuz there lacking, and my stand up is no where near my ground game so that needs to catch up as well.

I recently just competed in NAGA (North American Grappling Assosication) and got 2nd place in MENS NO GI, which for me was ok since im young and i have mad time to win that shit lol. Im slowly makin the transition into MMA, because its a whole diff world in anyone knows, no rush to die in there lol. And i have trained in many diff arts so if you wanna know what works and doesnt feel free to ask me. Lets go MMA entusiasts post away lol. :cheeky:

[ownd]

HAHA nice magnum you beat me to the first post, my favorite position is a simple mount and ready for G&P lol, fav move is triangle. I have met Vitor Belfort that is all for now lol. And i love when i can get that slam it feels good to slam the shit outta someone lol and land in a good position.

[Bobo]

I have several years of experience in some martial arts, but haven't tried full contact since the army in the mid 90's. No martial arts hobbies in the past few years, and no competition merits. I'm difficult to drop in a bar fight, that's all I can say... I try to avoid conflicts, and have succeeded well in it for years now. I get my "kicks" from marathons and similar sufferings these days, so I'm not really suitable material in this thread.

But, I do enjoy watching "Fight Club" and "K1" on Eurosport, good stuff! :cool

[zwmusic]

The only martial art I've practiced as a young man (not that I'm old and decrepit now) was Tai Chi Chuan. Never used it as a contact fight and actually learned that it wasn't intended for, rather a way of peaceful self discipline. But I can tell you that the increase of awareness and reflex that you aquire practicing Tai Chi when you're in a situation of danger is outstanding. The other thing I've learned is to stay at least a mile away when two masters of Tai Chi are fighting for real. The Most Incredibly Fast and Fearful Fight I Have Ever Seen.

[Bobo]

I know what You mean. Tai Chi isn't really fighting, it's a way to control the mind and body in perfect balance, "body sensing" in a way. The "chi" plays a big part there, and it's a mystery to me... I've had my experience with the "chi force" through Aikido too, an my analytical and scientific brain can't quite figure it out even I managed to use it myself a few times, and a weird feeling it was, power beyond muscle capacity. Is it spiritual or purely physical from total body and mind control? I truly don't know... but impressive, that it is.

[zwmusic]

Yup Bobo. I almost gave it up in the beginning cause our master directed us towards only meditation, body stretches and inner focus of energy for the first 3 months. And I was so eager to go about jumping, kicking and whatnot, that it was like a bucket of cold water on me... but I'm grateful now for not giving it up.

[Bobo]

About the same with Aikido in my case. In fact, I was going to a karate class but got some wrong info and was accidentally in the Aikido beginners class. For Years I went through the same old meditations and breathing exercises, and the same techniques over and over again... but it was the only way to learn, because some of those moves are so deep in my spine I simply can't forget them, and when a tight situation comes my hands work before my mind reacts! Remaining calm in a situation is like seeing the opponents moves in slow motion, and it's much better than some high flying kick without thinking.

[zwmusic]

Remaining calm in a situation is like seeing the opponents moves in slow motion, and it's much better than some high flying kick without thinking.

Absolutely.

[ownd]

When looking at the whole martial arts subject i tend to think of it as two seperate things. There is Martial Arts, ex. Aikido, TKD, Etc, etc. These are based more on tradition and are somewhat effective in their own ways but are mainly more traditional things based on old customs and such. Then for me there are Fighting Arts, IE. Boxing, Muaythai, BJJ, Wrestling etc, which cannot even be compared to Martial Arts because it is completely diff. Feel free to disagree with me lol. I tried aikido a long time ago and did not like it. I am a agressive fighting style person lol.

[Bobo]

Aikido doesn't fit in that category at all because it's defensive, and those combat arts You mentioned are based on attacking. They're not that different really, but for example Aikido wouldn't work for the big crowds like for example boxing does. All martial arts are very effective when mastered, but not all of them are good for competitions. I'm not surprised You didn't like Aikido after "trying it", because it takes years to really understand what it's all about. It takes a certain type of person to have enough patience to train those "meditation-based" martial arts, and most of people that start practising martial arts want to learn fancy kicks rather than mind control. Of course mind control is important in any martial arts, but in those competitive martial arts it comes after a few years of practising, while on the defensive arts it's the first thing to learn (and the last thing to master).

I practised Aikido long enough to use a sword (bokken/katana) and a stick (jo/bo), which made it quite interesting, but not very practical on the streets... then again, I didn't learn it to fight, but in tough situations I can take the opponent down and hurt him loke hell without having to pay for his tooth. Kicking people in the head works on the screen and in competitions, but on the streets it can be quite expensive and dangerous.

Competitive martial arts are better to please the audience, but it doesn't make them any more powerful or better than the traditional "old" martial arts. I won't start debating which martial arts are more powerful, because nobody can define them that way... it all depends on the skills of the individual, not in the philosophy of the sport. Someone who trains how to box for one year will kick the ass of someone who has practised Aikido for one year, because anybody can learn how to throw a punch in a few days but nobody can learn to control his mind in only one year.

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win."

[MagnumXL]

Ownd congradulations on 2nd place. Im gonna go to California soon to see some of my guys compete in a big tourney there. I dont know the name yet but its a big one. I know Panams are done and a really good friend of mine took 3rd. Im not sure if it was absolute or not but he still showed guys up.

[ownd]

Absolute is crazy lol, im competing in november in panams down here gi, and no gi lets see how i do lol.

[MagnumXL]

Yeah i been doing tons of no gi lately. I taught 6 police officers past week. :D


BTW* How many posts do i need to be able to use an avatar? :neut:

[Bobo]

BTW* How many posts do i need to be able to use an avatar? :neut:
About 590 more, 1000 is the rule. Did You transfer Your post count from the old CC or are those all from the new one?

[ownd]

Magnum what belt are you in Gi, i know that has nothing to do with No Gi skill though lol so i wont even ask. I know purple and brown belts in gi that i can spank like a baby in no gi.

[MagnumXL]

Im blue right now. :cool Got it from Royce himself.

[ownd]

Nice. im with the machados. I like their way of training over most of the gracie schools, a lot more rolling vs jus drilling jus depends on preference.

[ownd]

Ouch i was grappling yesterday and my shoulder popped outta socket and in real quick and now its all soar

[Bobo]

When looking at the whole martial arts subject i tend to think of it as two seperate things. There is Martial Arts, ex. Aikido, TKD, Etc, etc. These are based more on tradition and are somewhat effective in their own ways but are mainly more traditional things based on old customs and such. Then for me there are Fighting Arts, IE. Boxing, Muaythai, BJJ, Wrestling etc, which cannot even be compared to Martial Arts because it is completely diff. Feel free to disagree with me lol. I tried aikido a long time ago and did not like it. I am a agressive fighting style person lol.
I just wanted to get back to this, and yes, I do disagree. Those "fighting arts" You mentioned are great crowd pleasers, but they're really not very different when compared to other martial arts. Kicking and punching are good as competitive sports, good crowd pleasers... but that's really all they really are. You can't go out and kick people in the head, it gets very expensive and may even get You thrown into the jail. Stuff like that works only on screen and in the ring. Doesn't matter if You were attacked or not, punching someones teeth to his throat will always look bad in court no matter if it was self defence or not. Really, not very practical in real life... good as a hobby but that's all. There are more powerful weapons than a kick out there, for example a gun... but it will get You in trouble just as a kick, not out of the trouble. Don't under estimate the traditional martial arts, the fact that they're not used in the ring doesn't make them any less powerful. For example with Aikido You can cause more pain than a kick or a punch would do, without doing any permanent damage to the opponent. If You're not convinced yet, let me say this: Aikido is the OFFICIAL system for the Tokyo Police, and I'm sure they have more than enough kickers and punchers to deal with.

[smooth]

I have done Aiki-Jui Jistsu ever since i was 4 up until i was about a sophmore in highschool. In highschool i wrestled and placed 2nd in county and 3rd in district. In Aiki JuI Jitsu i was ranked #1 in new jersey in forms and weapons forms, when i was competing as a child.

Alot of MMA people want to put down traditional martial arts. I had many fights as a youngster and teenager and Aiki Jui Jitsu helped me tremendously. Plus, i was never the biggest in the bunch and it had me tossing around people bigger than me.

You have to determine whats perfect for you. Aiki Jui Jitsu was perfect for me as a child and young teen. I didnt need sharp boxing skills to defend myself, i didn't need kicks or leglocks or to get someone in the guard.

Just learn it and use it for competition and hope to never use it in street, cuz there are no rules. People lose lives( i mean shot or stabbed) cuz of fighting.

[Bobo]

People lose lives( i mean shot or stabbed) cuz of fighting.
You can add kicks and punches to that list too, people die of them too in real life. A trained boxer or similar can take a punch, but when a "nobody" from the street gets punched off guard, it can be ugly.

[ownd]

ur right mma guyz do put down traditional old school martial arts but for a reason that pro fighters know.

[smooth]

And what's that.

[Bobo]

Yeah, my question exactly.

[MagnumXL]

Nice. im with the machados. I like their way of training over most of the gracie schools, a lot more rolling vs jus drilling jus depends on preference.


lol. Not to be a dick but I went to a school down in San Antonio not too long ago. It was a Machado school :lol: Tapped everyone there except the instructor and thats cuz he didnt even roll with me. White,blue,purple,brown.

[MagnumXL]

The fact is, traditional martial arts is not gonna give u security. Infact its a false sense which is even more lethal. I have been into fights with several drunk men that are much older than me and the only thing that saved me from the hospital was my knees and fists. I dont think you can chop chop a guy and expect him to go down. Im not trying to put traditional martial arts down because they do give you a very good attitude towards life and you get a kind of 'inner peace' feeling. But honestly, i would rather know muay thai and jiu jitsu than karate and aikido when going up against a 300 lbs powerhouse that wants to rip my head off.

[Bobo]

Of course there are always "too big" opponents to deal with, and honestly I can say there are big fuckers out there even Your fists and kness won't take down. But in "normal" situations at least my Aikido has been more than enough. I know some excellent joint locks with which I can make the opponent scream for mercy. Once I was in a situation where a big fucker was strangling a security guard in a shopping mall in Helsinki. I went there, took him down, and held him on the floor for 15 minutes until the police showed up. He was strong and not easy to hold, so I had to really hurt him to calm him down... made him scream. If the man would have been bleeding with a broken nose or similar, I would have had some explaining to do in the court (that's the way it goes, not fair but that's how our world works). So, traditional martial arts are very effective when one's skillful enough... the thing why "pro fighters" put them down is the fact that they're a lot more difficult to master than those "fighting arts". Anyone can throw a punch, but not many can wrap up the opponent to the floor without causing any damage, takes years of training. So, traditional martial arts aren't any less effective, only alot harder to master.

[Bobo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put the "fighting arts" down. What I mean is, we shouldn't make this type of comparing between different martial arts, because the biggest difference is in individuals, not in the arts. Almost anyone who's been practising for example Muay Thai for one year can take down an opponent who has been practising Aikido for one year, because learning Aikido and putting it in good use takes alot more time and effort than that. But, after ten years if the same fighters meet, it definately won't be that easy for the "fighter" to defeat his opponent. Add five more years to that, nobody can say how it ends. See my point? A "fighter" can get stronger and faster to a limit, but a "traditional" fighter can evolve a lot longer. For sure the "fighting arts" are more effective because of these facts in most cases, but then again they're mostly hobbies, not a matter of life and death. It's alot easier to learn to avoid such situations rather than trying to be able to punch evey opponent down. It's better to walk away rather than start throwing fancy kicks in the air if the situation heats up, and that's something the "traditional" martial arts teach You.

[ownd]

Well ive never been to san antonio school so i cant speak about them. I think martial arts can be effective but against lets say a drunk moron who knows nothing, or if you get them before a full fledge attack starts i think they can be effective. But once agressive punches start flying at your face, and knees coming in and a guy is trying to tackle you all that flys out the window very fast and normal martial artist usually panick and just get punished.

And isnt the instructor at the san antonio school Carlos Machado? if it there is no way in hell even if carmen electra was naked gonna give it to u if u won you could beat him, hez ridiculous and has won the ADCC before.

[MagnumXL]

No he wasent even a machado i dont think. His name was ryan something and he was kinda hispanic looking.

Bobo-Have you seen any of the earlier UFC fights? Kung fu vs. Kick boxing, Tae kwon do vs Jiu Jitsu etc etc? Brazilian Jiu Jitsu won all the time. I have never seen an aikido guy or a tae kwon do guy beat up anybody. Traditional martial arts arent really for 'fighting' they are more for show in my opinion. You show good form, you get another belt. In Jiu Jitsu it will take me another 8-10 years before i become a black belt. In Tae Kwon Do i can get it in under 3. So im not sure about your theory on the evolving traditional martial arts fighter vs. the limited fighter. Since i do not use Muay Thai as my main art anymore, i can say for a fact that the theory you presented is false because everyday new techniques are being made in brazilian jiu jitsu.

[Bobo]

...normal martial artist usually panick and just get punished.
This proves to me You have no idea of what You're talking about. I know a few "traditional martial artists" who would twist Your joints so bad You would never be punching or kicking again. You'd better hope to get one of those lucky punches in very soon (the ones that boxing and similar competitive aggression stuff is totally based on), because once they get a good grip on You, it's sleepy time. :lol: Trust me, I've seen some convincing stuff by some masters, and those "amazing" skinny thai boxers would be a sad sight with their knees flying around. :lol: Don't forget there are kicks and punches in almost any martial arts, and You definately feel them when You can't defend because Your joints are popping out of their sockets.

Bobo-Have you seen any of the earlier UFC fights? Kung fu vs. Kick boxing, Tae kwon do vs Jiu Jitsu etc etc? Brazilian Jiu Jitsu won all the time. I have never seen an aikido guy or a tae kwon do guy beat up anybody.
I have never seen an "Aikido guy" in a ring, and if that has happened then he must have been someone who has totally misunderstood the philosophy of Aikido -> definately not a master. Yes, I've seen alot because I'm very interested in martial arts. The problem with those fights is the fact that some are aggressive, and some defensive. You get the best of the best from the aggressive "fighting arts" to those show fights because that's what they do... those are made for the ring. From the defensive side You get some keen 1. or 2. dan black belt guys to show off, while the true masters never attend that kind of shows. Traditional martial arts are often very strongly based on controlling the mind and staying calm, and attending those funny shows is just too far from their philosophy.

"Kung fu vs. Kick boxing, Tae kwon do vs Jiu Jitsu etc etc...". How can there be something like that, and how can someone think those would tell which one is the best? It isn't the arts competiting, it's the individuals of each discipline. From the competitive and aggressive disciplines You get the masters there who do it for living, while from the traditional martial arts You will never see the masters in such things.

I'm strongly against this type of comparsion, because they are simply too different. Many traditional martial arts like Aikido are strongly based on mental advancement, meaning a true master will never fight because he doesn't need to. Those idiots on the streets who attack people for fun, often drunk, are the baboons from the "fighting arts" thinking they can take down just anybody. An aggressive fighter will attack knowing he can propably win, and a defensive martial artist will walk away knowing he can propably tie the jumping baboon to a knot if needed.

BTW, an "Aikido master" would propably win any "fighting arts" master with his "samurai sword"! :lol: Fist against sword... how sad is that? :wink:

[smooth]

This proves to me You have no idea of what You're talking about. I know a few "traditional martial artists" who would twist Your joints so bad You would never be punching or kicking again. You'd better hope to get one of those lucky punches in very soon (the ones that boxing and similar competitive aggression stuff is totally based on), because once they get a good grip on You, it's sleepy time. :lol: Trust me, I've seen some convincing stuff by some masters, and those "amazing" skinny thai boxers would be a sad sight with their knees flying around. :lol: Don't forget there are kicks and punches in almost any martial arts, and You definately feel them when You can't defend because Your joints are popping out of their sockets.


I have never seen an "Aikido guy" in a ring, and if that has happened then he must have been someone who has totally misunderstood the philosophy of Aikido -> definately not a master. Yes, I've seen alot because I'm very interested in martial arts. The problem with those fights is the fact that some are aggressive, and some defensive. You get the best of the best from the aggressive "fighting arts" to those show fights because that's what they do... those are made for the ring. From the defensive side You get some keen 1. or 2. dan black belt guys to show off, while the true masters never attend that kind of shows. Traditional martial arts are often very strongly based on controlling the mind and staying calm, and attending those funny shows is just too far from their philosophy.

"Kung fu vs. Kick boxing, Tae kwon do vs Jiu Jitsu etc etc...". How can there be something like that, and how can someone think those would tell which one is the best? It isn't the arts competiting, it's the individuals of each discipline. From the competitive and aggressive disciplines You get the masters there who do it for living, while from the traditional martial arts You will never see the masters in such things.

I'm strongly against this type of comparsion, because they are simply too different. Many traditional martial arts like Aikido are strongly based on mental advancement, meaning a true master will never fight because he doesn't need to. Those idiots on the streets who attack people for fun, often drunk, are the baboons from the "fighting arts" thinking they can take down just anybody. An aggressive fighter will attack knowing he can propably win, and a defensive martial artist will walk away knowing he can propably tie the jumping baboon to a knot if needed.

BTW, an "Aikido master" would propably win any "fighting arts" master with his "samurai sword"! :lol: Fist against sword... how sad is that? :wink:

You are going to argue that Aikido is useless against 300lb men?

What sense does that make? Any boxer, muay thai kickboxer, etc would have trouble aganst a 300lb man, thats why there's a lil thing called weight classes.'

Also everything lost to jui jitsu during the early MMA, even boxing. Royce showed minimal standup skills all he did was take the person down. I really love to see you do that in a street fight, where there's people circling around you and probably surrounded by his bows ready to stomp you out or sucker punch you.

It's insane to say Aikido doesn't work in practice, because i have used it countless times in the streets and playgrounds. If it didn't work my father would of took me out and find someplace else.

[Bobo]

You are going to argue that Aikido is useless against 300lb men? It's insane to say Aikido doesn't work in practice, because i have used it countless times in the streets and playgrounds. If it didn't work my father would of took me out and find someplace else.
I'm a bit confused. Where did I say those things? I've used Aikido many times in real situations, and even I'm not very skilled in it, I survive pretty well in tough situations. Please explain... all I've been doing is trying to prove traditional martial arts (such as Aikido) to be very effective when mastered. Please read my post again (but please don't quote it all again)... You got it all wrong.

[smooth]

I'm a bit confused. Where did I say those things? I've used Aikido many times in real situations, and even I'm not very skilled in it, I survive pretty well in tough situations. Please explain... all I've been doing is trying to prove traditional martial arts (such as Aikido) to be very effective when mastered. Please read my post again (but please don't quote it all again)... You got it all wrong.

I don't know why i quoted you. Even after i quoted you i was like why am i quoting him, i should be quoting magnum. But too lazy to do it again . :lol:

[Valk]

There was once a very famous Aikido player in Japan who spent
his whole life studying Usheba's legendary art. Although he had
dedicated his whole existence to this beautiful art he had never
actually had occasion to test it in a real life situation against a
determined attacker, someone intent on hurting him. Being a
moralistic kind of person he realised that it would be very bad
karma to actually go out and pick a fight just to test his art so he
was forced to wait until a suitable occasion presented itself.
Naively, he longed for the day when he was attacked so that he
could prove to himself that Aikido was powerful outside of the
controlled walls of the dojo.
The more he trained, the more his obsession for validation grew
until one day, travelling home from work on a local commuter
train, a potential situation did present itself -an overtly drunk and
aggressive man boarded his train and almost immediately started
verbally abusing the other passengers.
'This is it,' the Aikido man thought to himself, 'this is my chance
to test my art.'
He sat waiting for the abusive passenger to reach him. It was
inevitable that he would: he was making his way down the
carriage abusing everyone in his path. The drunk got closer and
closer to the Aikido man, and the closer he got the louder and
more aggressive he became. Most of the other passengers
recoiled in fear of being attacked by the drunk. However, the
Aikido man couldn't wait for his turn, so that he could prove to
himself and everyone else, the effectiveness of his art. The drunk
got closer and louder. The Aikido man made ready for the
seemingly inevitable assault -he readied himself for a bloody
encounter.
As the drunk was almost upon him he prepared to demonstrate
his art in the ultimate arena, but before he could rise from his
seat the passenger in front of him stood up and engaged the
drunk jovially. 'Hey man, what's up with you? I bet you've
been drinking in the bar all day, haven't you? You look like a
man with problems. Here, come and sit down with me, there's
no need to be abusive. No one on this train wants to fight with
you.'
The Aikido man watched in awe as the passenger skillfully
talked the drunken man down from his rage. Within minutes
the drunk was pouring his heart out to the passenger about how
his life had taken a downward turn and how he had fallen on
hard times. It wasn't long before the drunk had tears streaming
down his face. The Aikido man, somewhat ashamed thought to
himself 'That's Aikido!'. He realised in that instant that the
passenger with a comforting arm around the sobbing drunk was
demonstrating Aikido, and all martial art, in it highest form.

[MagnumXL]

You are going to argue that Aikido is useless against 300lb men?

What sense does that make? Any boxer, muay thai kickboxer, etc would have trouble aganst a 300lb man, thats why there's a lil thing called weight classes.'

Also everything lost to jui jitsu during the early MMA, even boxing. Royce showed minimal standup skills all he did was take the person down. I really love to see you do that in a street fight, where there's people circling around you and probably surrounded by his bows ready to stomp you out or sucker punch you.

It's insane to say Aikido doesn't work in practice, because i have used it countless times in the streets and playgrounds. If it didn't work my father would of took me out and find someplace else.


Weight class does not matter. Royce gracie (brazilian jiu jitsu) won over a 400+ lbs guy when he weighed 170 lbs in under 1:30. Thats why the arts IM talking about have been proven time and time again. If some guy starts throwing haymakers at an aikido or tae kwon do guy, hes down for the count. Unless hes a 'master' but how many 'masters' are there? Master of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu > Master of Aikido etc etc. Master of Muay Thai > Master of aikido and all that other stuff. This stuff has been proven where it counts. Im not putting down joint locks at all because brazilian jiu jitsu is just that. BUT Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is so technical that theres no chance for the opponenent to win unless he knows BJJ aswell. If somone knew aikido or whatever and went up against a drunk theres still a chance the drunk could not feel the joint locks and knock him the fuck out. 95% of fights end up on the ground. To me, that says it all. BJJ > *.

[Bobo]

Royce gracie (brazilian jiu jitsu) won over a 400+ lbs guy when he weighed 170 lbs in under 1:30. Thats why the arts IM talking about have been proven time and time again.
That wasn't "Brazilian jiu jitsu" against all martial arts, that was Royce Gracie against a 400+ lbs guy. You seem to miss my point here... it's never the "arts" against each other, it's people with their skills against others. I'm sure Royce Gracie would have been excellent in almost any "art" because he's gifted that way. Never the arts competiting, always individuals.
If somone knew aikido or whatever and went up against a drunk theres still a chance the drunk could not feel the joint locks and knock him the fuck out.
That isn't even possible, the joint locks work every time. I've been in a situation when I was in the military police where a big and angry drug addict attacked four of us with a knife. The "chief of guard" was skilled in several martial arts, and he managed to punch him hard twice and kick him to the head once. Had no effect (normally it would have dropped almost anybody), because the drugs made him feel no pain I think. One of the guys managed to hit his hand holding the knife with a nightstick so that we could hear the bones in his fingers snapping, and he dropped the knife. Before we could do anything, he picked the knife back to his broken hand because he felt no pain. Eventually, we managed to get him down to the ground, and I made one of my arm locks on him while the others grabbed his feet and other hand. He was amazingly powerful propably because of the drugs (and his size), and because of his size we had trouble keeping him there even there were four of us. I had to twist the arm lock so tight I could feel his ligaments snapping, and that he did feel (surprisingly) and eventually calmed him down. Really, the only way to keep him there was a powerful and painful joint lock, otherwise we would have been in trouble. Joint locks work every time, no matter if the opponent feels it or not... because to break free from a good joint lock You have to sacrifice some ligaments and muscles, and that's not very likely to happen.

[Bobo]

Really, it's quite offending for You guys to say "traditonal martial arts" being only old traditions and meditation and next to nothing in reality. Your attitude doesn't surprise me really because You base Your beliefs only on those show fights You've seen performed by the best of Your "arts". It's complete blindness and ignorance to say that the old fighting arts performed by samurais and other similar fighters for hundreds of years would be next to nothing in reality. People like Royce Gracie may be pro in his field, but that's only one person. There are masters in any martial arts, only You don't have a clue who the rest of them are or what they're capable of. I'm not putting Your fighting arts down, only telling You that You're completely ignorant of everything else in the martial arts field outside Your bloody ring, everything You say is proof of that. You remind me of those debates in the kindergarten where kids had debates of whos dad is the strongest. :lol:

Oh, and Valk: a great story. If only some would understand what's it all about instead of thinking who's the toughest guy in the ring. There is the competitive life inside the ring, and then there's the real life where attitude really counts. We simply can't go around kicking people in the head like in the movies, and martial arts are the key to not having to do just that. The tough guy in reality is the one that calms the situation down, not the one who can do most damage to his opponents. That's why there is the ring so the fighting doesn't have to be on the streets.

[Valk]

What is a joint lock exactly? Is twisting someone's arm behind his back a joint lock?

[ownd]

That isn't even possible, the joint locks work every time.
A good friend of mine from where i train very good fighter, fights MMA got in a street fight at a club, got taken down by a big wild ass dude ended up in guard, spun and got da dude in an arm bar and cranked which in turned broke his arm nasty... the guy didnt even acknowledge it he kept on swinging like a mad man as if nothing happened. My friend secured him after a few more secs but still he fukin kept goin after. I dont mabie the aikido joint locks are diff, but the armbar din stop this guy.

Call me ignorant if you like but i will beleive these martial art masters that everyone speaks of prove effective when i see them in a ring proving their art for the world to see just as royce has proven BJJ, it is the only way and their has yet to be one that proves to be anything in a ring.

[MagnumXL]

Exactly ownd. If we want to talk about traditional martial arts, i guess all 500,000 of them are ok. But it still does not show why i kick tae kwon do, karate, and aikdio guys asses when i spar with them NHB. I mean.. i guess they can say 'well im not used to no rules' etc etc... but in the streets there are no refs.


EDIT: Yeah i guess if i were just to do tae kwon do rules or just aikido rules then i would get my ass kicked. But im talking about more realistic situations where you would need to use these skills to save urself.

[biggerpenis]

Exactly ownd. If we want to talk about traditional martial arts, i guess all 500,000 of them are ok. But it still does not show why i kick tae kwon do, karate, and aikdio guys asses when i spar with them NHB. I mean.. i guess they can say 'well im not used to no rules' etc etc... but in the streets there are no refs.


EDIT: Yeah i guess if i were just to do tae kwon do rules or just aikido rules then i would get my ass kicked. But im talking about more realistic situations where you would need to use these skills to save urself.

That's what it's called (martial) art.I did Tae Kwon-Do for about 9/10years and I quit few years back.The whole thing is not to kick someones ass, there's much over that.If you wan't to beat the shit out of people learn thai boxing or something.

[MagnumXL]

That's what it's called (martial) art.I did Tae Kwon-Do for about 9/10years and I quit few years back.The whole thing is not to kick someones ass, there's much over that.If you wan't to beat the shit out of people learn thai boxing or something.


:P Funny u mention that...

[ownd]

Hehe Thai boxing and BJJ i must add :lol: :D :lol:

[Bobo]

Call me ignorant if you like but i will beleive these martial art masters that everyone speaks of prove effective when i see them in a ring proving their art for the world to see just as royce has proven BJJ, it is the only way and their has yet to be one that proves to be anything in a ring.
Royce haven't proven BJJ, he's only proving his personal skills. Or do You think Lance Armstrong's bike is the fastest, or could it be that the man is fast with a good bike? BJJ is for sure an effective art, but a few show fights aren't enough to prove it to be the best. A few show fights aren't enough to prove which is better or not, it's only a few individuals with their personal skills. If there would be some sort of contest every year where the best of the best of each martial/fighting arts would compete against each other, and not only one man, but several men of a certain art would win almost every year, then we could propably make some conclusions. One problem is, there's no point in fighting in a ring with a defensive art because those contests are totally based on brainless kicking and punching, hoping for some lucky shots. This type of talk I've seen here can be heard from almost anyone who's thinking his "art" is the best. Or do You guys think You're bullet proof now and nobody can beat You because Your art is BJJ? You can propably beat up many black belt guys from many defensive martial arts because those arts are far more difficult to master than aggressive ring fights. I recommend trying Your angry attack against any Aikido masters (from 3.dan up), and I can assure You it will be painful, could be a real eye opener.

I'm not saying BJJ wouldn't be effective, because it is. I'm only this defensive because You're saying that traditional martial arts are only "traditions and meditation", which is totally wrong and reflects some serious ignorance from Your part. It's like comparing a construction worker to a medical student... the worker can swing his shovel pretty well after one year of experience, but the medical student can't do the simplest surgery after one year. This is exactly the case between "fighting arts" and "traditional martial arts": You learn to punch and kick pretty soon, but You can't do complex defensive techniques before several years of training. Of course it takes years to master those fighting arts too, but You learn to beat the shit out of people much sooner.

[Bobo]

EDIT: Yeah i guess if i were just to do tae kwon do rules or just aikido rules then i would get my ass kicked. But im talking about more realistic situations where you would need to use these skills to save urself.
There are no "Aikido rules" because it's not a competitive art for the ring. Are You sure You're not talking about something You know nothing about? :wink: You will learn to punch Your way out of tough situations pretty soon, anyone can kick or punch... but to learn complex defensive techniques it takes years to be able to use them in real situations. The fact that Aikido is much harder to learn than a kick or a punch doesn't make it any less effective. After three years of training anyone learning BJJ can kick the shit out of almost anyone with three years of Aikido training (not necessarily, but propably...). After ten years when someone learns to really use Aikido well, it won't be as easy anymore.

[ownd]

Your right anyone can learn how to kick and punch, but not eeryone can learn how to kick and punch accuratley, powerfull, with speed and precision while at the same time protecting themselves from take downs and counter punches. a person with training for one year in boxing and muaythai, would get destroyed by someone training for 7 years. you develop your game and your body and coridination to level that is insane as time goes on, so "lucky Punchers" as you also progress as time goes on. And Royce and many many others have proven BJJ to be a superior art in MMA, they have revolutionized the world of fighting martial arts.

[Bobo]

True, but despite the high skill level of the best, every single ring fight I've seen is mostly throwing kicks and punches towards the opponent hoping they would land. The biggest difference between the winners and loosers is usually the power and speed of the attacks, "accuracy" is more based on luck. This debate could go on and on... but the fact is, a kick or a punch is much easier to learn and use than complex defensive techniques (for example Aikido), and that's why we can't make any conclusions if some brown belt Aikido dude gets his ass kicked... he simply isn't ready for full contact at that stage of his training, while a BBJ trainer is more than ready for it.

[Bobo]

Didn't mean to kill this thread with my preaching. Sorry, guys... :puke:

[Valk]

Yes, its completely dead now. :cry: :cry:

[ownd]

I will liven it. RICKSON GRACIE all legendary in jiu jitsu no doubt claims to be 400-0 , however i kind of doubt his mma skills due to the fact that he really never fought any awsome fighters none the less he is a jiu jitsu god. Watch documentary called choke. Also if you havent heard he is considering doing one more fight b4 retirement i hope to god he doesnt do this because he is naming some dangerous people. Wanderlei silva, Fedor Emilianko, Bas Rutten. Good lord this is another time for him hez 48 and now everyone knows jiu jitsu so he wont have that domination aspect of a no ground fiter. Wand will fucking go after him like a wilderbeast and rickson has no stand up at all, i dont wanna see him get knocked out, and fedor is a beast on the ground as well as standing i wouldnt wanna see him get slaugthered. And bas would be a good fight but his stand up is SICK, i think hed take rickson. I say he retires once and for all with his supposed 400-0 record. Your thoughts.

[BigBadBear]

I figured I'd revive this thread, what with it only being a couple of days until arguably one of or even the best Pride card yet:

Fight Card

The Semi-Finals and Finals of the Middleweight Tournament
Wanderlei Silva (Brazil)
vs.
Ricardo Arona (Brazil)

Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (Brazil)
vs.
Alistair Overeem (Holland)

Winner Silva/Arona
vs.
Winner Rua/Overeem

Heavyweight Championship Match
Fedor Emelianenko (Russia)
vs.
Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic (Croatia)

Additional Matches
David "Tank" Abbott (USA)
vs.
Hidehiko Yoshida (Japan)

Igor Vovchanchyn (Ukraine)
vs.
Kazuhiro Nakamura (Japan)

Fabricio Werdum (Brazil/Spain)
vs.
Roman Zentsov (Russia)

Participants and Matches Subject to Change.

Any predictions from the MMA enthuisiasts?