Health Care

[Dr. P-Evil]

Hey, all you guys in countries where health care is heavily helped by govt, how is it? we hear so many horror stories in the US about about how bad it is, slow, and heartless.

your thought?

Everyone hear talks about how govt gets in between you and your doctor...but hell the insurance companies are no sweethearts either and we live pretty unhealthy lives here as it is...we need the insurance.

[The Big Banana]

It's a lie. I have heard Australias system isnt as good as Canadas, but there is nothing to stop you from taking out private health cover here, where free public cover is also available. I do and my coverage cost last year cost less than 1000 USD. Of that 1k, 30% came back to me as a rebate from our federal government as a way of encouraging people to take out and keep private healthcare to ease the pressure on the public system.

I would generally use the public system anyway unless I wanted elective surgery which may have a long waiting list (like I said our public system isn't perfect). The most important thing to remember is that a public system will drive the cost of using private hospitals down.

[Kefitzat Haderech]

Petty much the same in Israel
Health insurance via "Sick Funds" is mandatory and costs about 10 usd per month. If you need to see an expert it might take some time (I heard that it can take up to 6 months) unless you are willing to pay.

[Adey]

In uk most people use National Health Service (funded by taxes).

Its something our government/country has always been very proud of, but for the last 30 years it has been struggling, due to bad managment and poor use of funds.
Its not uncommon for someone to die waiting for a bed in a corridoor.

People try and sue the hospitals for a mistakes that happen, taking more money of the rest of us, when really the people on the front line are amzing people, but they get used as scape goats whenever something goes wrong.

Affluent people use private health insurance.

I still personally feel lucky to know if something bad happens to me there will be people to help and i wont get a £2000 bill at the end of it!

Adey

[Dr. P-Evil]

i thought so..thanks for the insight...ya. i just got a $1600 bill for an MRI that i really didn't need, but was suggested to confirm a problem with my foot. it was a $5000 bill, and even though insurance took on a good chunk of it...it's still fucking killer to pay that bill.

i find tv show pundits from the right say...'where in the constitution does it say we have the right to health insurance?' it doesn't....it's in our declaration of independence....the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....i dunno...but life seems to go pretty much hand in hand with health care.

[EndorphinMachine]

In Europe the public heath care system is really good. You don't really need a private one really. Americans were backstabbed by their own president Richard Nixon. That guy really fucked up your healthcare system and now all you got is insurance companies which is the same as burglary. I think Michael Moore has done a documentary on that. Yes he has. And all Americans should have watched it.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

I think Michael Moore has done a documentary on that. Yes he has. And all Americans should have watched it.

Oh yeah, Michael FUCKING Moore..... bleh I've seen enough of his "documentaries" to know he has an agenda a mile wide..sure there's always a tiny fraction of truth in his ramblings; but he's just a schmuck in this American's opinion.

[Dr. P-Evil]

i think Michael Moore is a douche bag....but he doesn't fit the typical douche bag look. he's just a douche when he's trying to be an advocate. tries to tussle with right wing on their turf...it's annoying melodrama.

that being said....he's smart and he does bring to light some thoughts that are provocative and lay a mirror to make America face itself.

[Torpedo]

i find tv show pundits from the right say...'where in the constitution does it say we have the right to health insurance?' it doesn't....it's in our declaration of independence....the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....i dunno...but life seems to go pretty much hand in hand with health care.

I'm on the right in most cases, but that's just political spin. If you want to get technical, the Constitution was NOT meant to limit our rights. It was just meant to specify some of our rights in an effort to keep the federal government from abusing its power. It was meant to limit the government, not the rights of the individual. Hence, constitutional rights are the minimum, not the maximum, rights to which we are entitled as Americans and as human beings.


that being said....he's smart and he does bring to light some thoughts that are provocative and lay a mirror to make America face itself.

:neut: Which of his "documentaries" has ever had a positive impact?

[Adey]

:neut: Which of his "documentaries" has ever had a positive impact?

Im sure Mr.Moores bank manager can answer that question.

[Dr. P-Evil]

eh, i'm left of center, but i have real hard time with the right...except for lowering taxes and reducing entitlement programs because people abuse it though i'd rather pay higher taxes than to pay lower taxes and have the rest of what comes with being on the right.

i'm a big jon stewart and stephen colbert fan.

anyone who's on the right will discredit moore. anyone on the left will appreciate it. like i said..too douchey...convincing the people of what they already believe is not a great feat. he made money for 8 years because of Bush. people ate his stuff up because of their frustration.

[Louberg83]

i have real hard time with the right...except for lowering taxes and reducing entitlement programs because people abuse it though i'd rather pay higher taxes than to pay lower taxes and have the rest of what comes with being on the right.

Why do you have to agree with one side on everything? The problem with politics is that everyone follows the party agenda. I am right of center on most issues, but not everything. I think the country needs to start being very conservative on the economy, but I would never say the same thing about social issues. Sadly it seems like there aren't many politicians who don't follow their party on everything.

[zeolite]

I think the country needs to start being very conservative on the economyBecause it was over-regulation of the banks that caused all this mess? I'm not anti-conservative but I'm missing how the US needs to be more conservative on its economic policies.

[Dr. P-Evil]

Because it was over-regulation of the banks that caused all this mess? I'm not anti-conservative but I'm missing how the US needs to be more conservative on its economic policies.

agreed. deregulation fucked us...though we as citizens had a hand in it as well...investment banks were coke dealers, and we were addicts for easy money.

and yes, it should never be one sided....however, i find that i'm a leming as well. i give the left a lot more slack and believe more of what they say than the right. i wish i didn't...but i also understand why the right feels they way they do...they couldn't see it if they wanted to.

i agree that our monetary policy is aggressive...pumping in too much money...will cause inflation...but we're also fucked if we don't do anything. tax cuts just don't work....though it would be nice if it did. obama gets a lot of shit for putting money in stimulus for long term job planning..seems like pork...but in reality, the US needs to shift back away from a consumer economy to a producer economy...green is expensive...but it will save the country's job base over the 10 yr. horizon.

another thing people don't realize is that all this pork barrel spending is somewhat necessary. okalahoma may never get the federal money it needs unless someone from NY needs a bill passed and is willing to hook them up. they don't have the voting power in the house to get shit done. a lot of pork benefits people...but career politicians have their fun too which sucks.

[Torpedo]

. obama gets a lot of shit for putting money in stimulus for long term job planning..seems like pork...but in reality, the US needs to shift back away from a consumer economy to a producer economy...green is expensive...but it will save the country's job base over the 10 yr. horizon.


That's very true, and some tariffs wouldn't hurt us. But how will socialism help anything? Is the federal government so much more responsible than private businesses? Both are self-serving. The big difference is that a business's survival depends on its performance. The government's does not. Do you really want an organization with no accountability to make the decisions?

The truth is that the American people got overconfident. We thought that we were invincible, and we acted irresponsibly. Something like this was bound to happen. And the only way to fix it is to let it sort itself out. What will be solved by the federal government running up a debt that we will NEVER be able to pay off? What's going to be the end result of that? Hyperinflation when the Fed has to print a huge amount of cash? Will people lose confidence in the dollar altogether and put their investments elsewhere? Will we just pay the interest and leave the debt for future generations to worry about? Socialism is going to be the final death blow to the United States' status as the economic leader of the world.

[Dr. P-Evil]

taxes suck, but the free market is not always free and not always benevolent. you have to remember that we were able to do what we did because the rating agencies stamped our paper and sold it to other countries as though it were as good as gold. We fucked a lot of countries in the ass.

entitlement programs suck...easily abused. rewards having kids without a plan to take care of them.

both the free market and entitlement programs rely on human decency and sense of right and wrong as well as checking our own greed to keep either from spiraling out of control.

you have to remember it's capitalism that corrupts government...special interest groups, lobbyists, politicians with pet business projects, etc who want money or regulation to come their way, so they can make a little cash for themselves. that gets mixed in with real projects that need to be done for the greater good and things get murky. (pork)

all the more reason to cut off their funds, right? unfortunately, the free market doesn't take care of everyone...only those who have purchasing power. we are more selfish that we realize. i know so many hardcore farmers who don't want to give illegals free healthcare in the emergency rooms, but are perfectly willing to take subsidies from the govt to NOT grow something. let's not forget who their documented workers are supporting by working in the fields at minimum wage.

one of my favorite quotes heard Obama say, don't know if it's his line or someone else's, is that "It's not a matter of big goverment or small goverment. It's a matter of having a government that works." not exactly, but you get the point.

though i do get you Torpedo. all things being the same, if we are all selfish, why not just keep your money, right? Why let other people take your money if they are fucked up in the head as anyone else? that's fair.

[Louberg83]

Because it was over-regulation of the banks that caused all this mess? I'm not anti-conservative but I'm missing how the US needs to be more conservative on its economic policies.

I meant we need to be more conservative on spending, ie not doing any more huge stimulus packages. I wasn't directly referring to economic policies. We definitely need more regulation in certain areas.

About entitlement programs, I can't remember who this quote was from or the exact words, but it goes something like this. "Democracy fails when the masses realize they can keep voting themselves benefits."

[Dr. P-Evil]

i was curious as to the way other countries viewed their health care. very interesting. thank you.

i always wondered why there wasn't a lot of political banter on CC.

you can find the back and forth between the left and right anywhere on the net...so i apologize to everyone for getting this going.

i much prefer posting about who i'd rather bone, angelina jolie or megan fox as though these are choices i must make in my daily life:icon_rolleyes: