Protein and Caloric Intake Truths.

[oldie42]

First off, let me point out that any info you read posted by myself is solely my opinion and what I've learned over the course of many years. It is not intended to treat or cure any disease. Any info should be used at your own risk. Please consult your local physician before performing any exercise or dieting regimen.

Now with that out of the way....we all know people say this and that. Things that contradict each other. Whatever the case is, what I'm about to tell you is probably controversial and against what you believe now. But if you give it a try, I'm almost certain you will see steady and great gains in muscle mass.


PROTEIN AND CALORIES- WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW.

OK, there are many different kinds of protein out there. Whey, casein, soy, egg....some people don't know what's what and what's good.

Whey protein is the fastest absorbing protein. People mainly use this post workout because the body will absorb the protein quickly. There are different types of whey protein. Concentrate and isolate are the two main whey types you hear about. You may also hear about hydrosolate.

Whey concentrate is the lowest quality whey protein you can buy. I do not use it. I don't feel like going into great detail about it because to me, it is just pure crap.

Whey isolate is a much higher quality protein. It is also more expensive. Absorption rate is 85-90%...it won't give you bloating, gas, diarrhea, etc. that whey concentrate will. I use this in my post-workout shake. Always have, always will.

Whey Hydrosolate is "the best" money can buy. It's already pre-disgested so it will absorb the fastest and at a 90-95% rate. The reason it will get absorbed so quickly is because your gut does not need to process it as much. It's bitter and very expensive though.

Whey protein will be absorbed about 45 minutes after intake. It will be fully absorbed within 2 hours, but it will retain no biological activity at the 2 hour mark. That is why it should be coupled with another protein, or you should plan your post-workout meal within one hour of taking your protein shake.


On the note of casein, egg, and soy protein, I'll just briefly cover it here. Casein takes about 5-6 hours to absorb and retains biological activity way after whey protein is inactive. I'd recommend taking it before bed to fight catabolism. Egg, same thing...takes a while to absorb. I don't like using it, as it is expensive. Soy....I don't use it, it's estrogenic. Don't recommend anything soy.

I want to talk about a new protein I found...it is called Super Plasma Protein. It's spray dried bovine plasma. Yes, they take the blood of a cow, separate the plasma, spray dry it, filter it, sterilize it, etc. May sound gross, but the thing with it is that it has 300% more anabolic enzymes and bioactive proteins than the purest whey protein. It contains a high amount if immunoglobins to combat inflammation, IGF-1, and it also supports intestinal function. It is a slow absorbing protein so I combine it with my post-workout shake so it will absorb a bit faster. This is the best protein on the market. It is also the most expensive. About $35/lb. I use 6tsp, which is 30g. I recommend that if you start using it, start at 15g and see how that works for you. 15-30g is the ideal range. It will go quickly at 30g/day.

I've noticed the best gains from the Super Plasma Protein coupled with 100% whey isolate. My post-workout shake looks like this:

3 scoops Optimum Nutrition's 100% Gold Standard Whey (72g protein)
6tsp Protein Factory's Super Plasma Protein (30g protein)
140g WMS (carbs)
Calories = 914
Plus 2 cups fat free milk: 180 calories (18g protein)

Total calories: 1094
Total protein: 120g

To be honest, your post-workout shake will be the most important thing to eat/drink out of the whole day. If you slack off eating your calories and shit all day but you have your post-workout shake down, you WILL gain. Trust me.


Everyone says you have to eat, eat, eat. Eat big to get big. I believed this for a good part of my training. Recently I opposed this train of thought to see what would happen...I was surprised actually. Whether you have a fast metabolism, slow, medium...whether you're an ectomorph, meso, endo...doesn't matter. Eat HEALTHY, eat balanced meals, and you WILL grow. Is that to say you'll grow off of 500 calories a day? Nope.

You know all of the BMI bs floating around? WRONG. You do need calories to build muscle, but you do NOT need 5,000 or 6,000 calories. For God's sake, don't eat over 3,000 calories unless you're over 200 pounds. This is a misconception...eat RIGHT to get BIG. Don't worry about your 30/10/30 per meal or whatever you go by. Carbs and fat CAN be your friend. Eating EXCESS fats and carbs is where you FAIL. Everyone will tell you to eat lots of GOOD carbs and fats, lots of PROTEIN, and also tell you to eat BIG and LOTS AND LOTS of calories. How the hell are you supposed to do all of this? It's HARD. Takes a lot of dedication and discipline and often times people fail.

Nope...not anymore. Because I'm tell you, you do not need to eat big to get big. Ever seen a pro bodybuilder or ANYONE in general on their OFF SEASON?? They are fucking FAT. Plain and simple. Fat as FUCK. They'll eat and eat and eat...YES EAT BIG TO GET BIG IS RIGHT...TO BECOME A BIG FATASS! Don't buy into it. Eat 2,500 calories of good healthy foods, eat your veggies, bland foods are going to be good for you, sorry to say it. Whole wheat, oats, fiber, you have to do it. Canned foods aren't all bad, eat canned chili for example. Eat canned tuna, canned chicken. Chicken breast, salad...eat good, well balanced meals. 6 or 7 meals. 300-400 calories each meal.

Make sure your post-workout shake has a good amount of protein and complex carbs. You will grow if you cut it out of your mind that you need to eat a lot, eat this and that. Drop what you know and open your mind.

Try the Super Plasma Protein I mentioned. If it works, awesome...if it doesn't....well, it WILL work, so there's no answer there. There are many studies on it, and it is some good shit. I've been at this for over 25 years...hard work and dedication will pay off. Feel free to ask any questions. I know I probably missed something or didn't word something right.

[wern]

Very interesting info. I have been eating whey concentrate without even realising there was a difference :x
Do you know what percent body fat you are? If so, care to tell us?

[G-Spot19]

Nice post Oldie! Reps are in order as well as a new addition to the core when i get the free time. Thats two more posts to add

[oldie42]

My bodyfat is around 14-14.5% right now. I plan on cutting in about 2 months, hope I can hit 260-265 and cut down to 245 at 8-10%bf.

[G-Spot19]

:shock::shock::shock::shock:

Damn. That will be quite the physique!

[oldie42]

Watch out Ronnie Coleman :cool :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[G-Spot19]

I dont think i would ever want to be that big. Big Ron looks scary as fuck, but i wouldnt want to have that kind of body. Not my thing really. I do like the veins showing and I find so do women. My veins are quite prominent because even though I am not large just being 160, I am ripped pretty damn good. My veins were pointed out to my by a group of girl and they said it made them feel like going savage on me. Needless to say I have bought more BSN Nitrix :lol:

[oldie42]

I agree, Ronnie is pretty damn gross. But if you want a good comparison, I'm looking like Frank McGrath. Minus the steroids...you CAN do it naturally, it just takes a LONG damn time. Video here:

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[oldie42]

Also, BSN Nitrix is good stuff. NO Shotgun and NO Synthesize are pretty good, I'm trying them right now pre and post workout. But the one that was craziest for me was Gaspari PlasmaJet...that shit was too much for me. After a workout I had to have my wife massage the blood out of my muscles because it hurt so bad. My leg locked up one time because of it.

[jason12]

You look like Frank Mcgrath naturally..??? Do you compete?

[G-Spot19]

Thats a big fucker. :shock:
Yet his body is not disgusting looking like alot of dudes out there that get too big and too ripped. First time I actually saw him without a hoodie or something on. His chest is massive

[jason12]

If you see a picture of him during competition he is pretty ripped.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/mmarrella/fm.jpg
http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/attachment.php?attachmentid

[oldie42]

You look like Frank Mcgrath naturally..??? Do you compete?

Yes, but as I said, only after 25+ years of consistent training. If you want to get that big in 3 or 4 years, then take a ball shrinking amount of steroids. Sorry, I like my willy:cool


Thats a big fucker. :shock:
Yet his body is not disgusting looking like alot of dudes out there that get too big and too ripped. First time I actually saw him without a hoodie or something on. His chest is massive

Yea, he's always in his hoodie. That's the only guy I could compare myself to. Maybe I'll be brave enough to post a picture sometime:wink:

[oldie42]

Old, about 2 years but here:


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1536/dbs3oj5.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9350/dbsbp2.jpg

[Shane_Bos]

:shock:

Thats certainly impressive mate. I dont think id have the motivation to ever get that big.

[Tantalar]

I have a few questions about body building and caloric intake.

Right now I weigh about 230. I am about 6 feet tall. Extremely hairy which I have heard is linked to a lot of testosterone. Naturally I have a lot of muscle and I only recently started lifting weights. I don't want to use anything man made in order to bulk up. If I cant go out in the woods and kill it or grow it I don't want to eat it so that means no protein powder and no chemicals manufactured in some factory.

When I say "natural bodybuilding" I really mean natural bodybuilding. This is how i want to be.

I have lost about 40 pounds recently and want to get down to a low body fat %.

I have been eating a lot but working it all off to create a calorie deficit. I think I may have gained a little bit of muscle mass while losing weight

If I dont use any protein powder or supplements how much longer will it take to build muscles in comparison to if I was taking protein powder? I generally eat a lot of protein from eggs and I drink a LOT of milk. I have always had a LOT of milk in my diet which I contribute to my muscles being pretty big and strong as it is. I also eat a lot of fat free sugar free yogurt. I don't use any aspartame or splenda or any of that shit.

I hear that if you consume more calories than you burn off then you gain weight and lose weight if it is reversed. My brother is 5/10 and weighs maybe 160 and eats at least 3,000 calories every day and does zero physical activity every day. His diet also consists of a ton of fatty foods. How come he does not gain weight? Can your metabolism be really fast so that you can consume even 3,000 calories yet you can still lose or maintain your weight?

Now that I am 230 pounds it feels like it is much harder for me to lose more weight. When I was starting off at 270ish it was much easier to lose weight. I think maybe my body wants to keep the fat that it has...

[oldie42]

First thing's first brother, I'd suggest taking measurements of yourself. Measure your arms, legs, etc. as well as your bodyfat and weight. This will make it easier to tell if you're gaining muscle while losing fat.

You don't have to take protein powder or anything, but protein IS natural...it's a dairy byproduct, so staying natural - you can still do it even if you take protein powder.

FOOD is ALWAYS better than supplements. If you can eat enough and get enough calories and protein from your food you will NOT need supplements. Supplements are just that...they supplement you. I take a post-workout protein shake because I feel that it is better for my goals to have quick and readily available protein.

Your metabolism does affect what you can and cannot eat and how much weight you will or will not gain. Maybe his metabolism is quite fast and he can eat junk food and whatever and not gain weight. While you on the other hand will gain weight even if you are eating healthier. It's all in your genetics, man. We all have to deal with what we're given and make the best of it. That's what makes your journey unique and something you can be proud of.

Losing 40 pounds is a great and impressive feat in itself. You should be proud that you did it. Most people do not take that first step and stick to it and lose the weight. You will almost ALWAYS lose weight faster, with the more fat you have on you. It's when you get down to those last 20 or 30 pounds that it gets hard and fucking frustrating as hell. You just have to push through it and work a little harder. I know, because I've been there.

Your body always wants to maintain homeostasis, it doesn't want to change at all. It wants you to keep the weight...you have to fight your body. Push it and MAKE it lose the weight. Proper diet and exercise WILL get you there. Your milk...drink non-fat milk. A lot of people complain that it tastes watered down and 2% is better. I like 2% but I drink non-fat because it gets me where I want to be. Eat complex carbs, quality protein - fish, beef, chicken. Vegetables, make sure you eat lots of fiber. Drink a gallon of water a day. These things will make it easier. Fiber from veggies will fill you up so you won't be as hungry. If you stay fuller, you will be that much closer to losing weight.

Do cardio and also weight train...you'll get there brother, it just takes time.

[G-Spot19]

Dude you are jacked! That is awesome. I would love to look like that, but on a smaller scale. Dude i thought you was big before but that is awesome!

[Tantalar]

thanks for the information. I like skim milk. I try to have instant oatmeal every day. I mean im sure regular oatmeal is better but instant is easy to get carbs + breakfast out of the way and plus it isnt a ton of calories but it is a manageable amount

[oldie42]

Dude you are jacked! That is awesome. I would love to look like that, but on a smaller scale. Dude i thought you was big before but that is awesome!

It's from digging all those graves for the newbs that come on here, man. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks though! Appreciate it!


thanks for the information. I like skim milk. I try to have instant oatmeal every day. I mean im sure regular oatmeal is better but instant is easy to get carbs + breakfast out of the way and plus it isnt a ton of calories but it is a manageable amount

I know you may like the instant oatmeal with the maple sugar and flavors and stuff, but try to eat one cup of regular oats instead. It won't be all that flavorful, cook with water and you can add a bit of milk to it after it's cooked. It will be better for you if you do that. Skim milk - you're on the right path.

[jason12]

Instant oatmeal isn't any "faster" when you consider that you don't need to cook your oats. Just put the crap in some liquid and eat it. Can't get any faster then that. Also make sure not to buy that 1 minute stuff either. I hate how it look exactly like the real deal oats except for the cooking time. I happen to think the one minute oatmeal tastes horrible as well though that maple and brown sugar is pretty awesome tasting haha.

They actually make a sugar free version of a good amount of flavors (including maple and brown sugar). If you hate the tastes of oats I would just mix it half and half (of less if possible). That fake sugar seems to be extremely strong so you could probably get away with using a very small amount of it and still get that taste.

[G-Spot19]

It's from digging all those graves for the newbs that come on here, man. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks though! Appreciate it!




Dont forget all the ones you chewed up, spit out, and buried in teh Hell of CC, "Oldie's Realm!"

[PepeLePew]

Damn, Oldie is huge! I got to look into that Super Plasma Protein for sure. But 120g of total protein...damn, I thought your body couldn't take that high of an amount at once, I've been sticking in the 40-60g range per meal.

[thegrezdog]

simply put, excess calories = anabolism, caloric deficit = catabolism

for 97% of the individuals out there, there is NO MIDDLE GROUND. unless you have superior genetics, you WILL NOT grow without enough food. you are going to need solid amounts of meat, milk, eggs, etc., wholesome foods, and you are going to need enough for growth.

if you are a beginner, you have to eat in order to put on some mass, just accept it. when I was 15 yrs old, I ate and trained like a horse and put on 40 lbs in one summer, and my bench/squat/deadlift #s skyrocketed. this is what is takes to get truly big.

you cannot be afraid of getting a little smooth in order to gain some muscle. just remember, losing fat is much easier than gaining muscle. so why spend a whole year gaining 6-7 pounds of lean body mass, when you could put on 30, and cut away maybe 12 pounds of fat for a resulting 18 lean body mass increase?

it doesn't make sense to me, why some of these kids are wasting there time. as Dante Trudell once put it, you have to PUT IN YOUR DUES. you won't magically wake up one day at a shredded 230 pounds with striations in your hamstrings. there are going to be times where you have to force yourself to eat, to do another rep, to keep on going even when you wish you could just quit.

and if you can cross that threshold, if you can find that inner resolve, it really is simple. Personally, I am around 215 right now at about 9%, but I have been as high as 234 at around the same bodyfat, all natural.

keep hitting that iron!!

[thegrezdog]

as a clarification of my above post, i am not advocating to become a diabetic fatboy in your quest for muscle.

rather, i am saying that you will certainly need to eat enough, and if you gain a little fat, don't cry about it.

personally, seeing the pics in this thread of the OP, i am surprised he is recommending only 2500 calories a day for someone...i would take a more aggressive approach personally...

[Dr. P-Evil]

First off, let me point out that any info you read posted by myself is solely my opinion and what I've learned over the course of many years. It is not intended to treat or cure any disease. Any info should be used at your own risk. Please consult your local physician before performing any exercise or dieting regimen.

Now with that out of the way....we all know people say this and that. Things that contradict each other. Whatever the case is, what I'm about to tell you is probably controversial and against what you believe now. But if you give it a try, I'm almost certain you will see steady and great gains in muscle mass.


PROTEIN AND CALORIES- WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW.

OK, there are many different kinds of protein out there. Whey, casein, soy, egg....some people don't know what's what and what's good.

Whey protein is the fastest absorbing protein. People mainly use this post workout because the body will absorb the protein quickly. There are different types of whey protein. Concentrate and isolate are the two main whey types you hear about. You may also hear about hydrosolate.

Whey concentrate is the lowest quality whey protein you can buy. I do not use it. I don't feel like going into great detail about it because to me, it is just pure crap.

Whey isolate is a much higher quality protein. It is also more expensive. Absorption rate is 85-90%...it won't give you bloating, gas, diarrhea, etc. that whey concentrate will. I use this in my post-workout shake. Always have, always will.

Whey Hydrosolate is "the best" money can buy. It's already pre-disgested so it will absorb the fastest and at a 90-95% rate. The reason it will get absorbed so quickly is because your gut does not need to process it as much. It's bitter and very expensive though.

Whey protein will be absorbed about 45 minutes after intake. It will be fully absorbed within 2 hours, but it will retain no biological activity at the 2 hour mark. That is why it should be coupled with another protein, or you should plan your post-workout meal within one hour of taking your protein shake.


On the note of casein, egg, and soy protein, I'll just briefly cover it here. Casein takes about 5-6 hours to absorb and retains biological activity way after whey protein is inactive. I'd recommend taking it before bed to fight catabolism. Egg, same thing...takes a while to absorb. I don't like using it, as it is expensive. Soy....I don't use it, it's estrogenic. Don't recommend anything soy.

I want to talk about a new protein I found...it is called Super Plasma Protein. It's spray dried bovine plasma. Yes, they take the blood of a cow, separate the plasma, spray dry it, filter it, sterilize it, etc. May sound gross, but the thing with it is that it has 300% more anabolic enzymes and bioactive proteins than the purest whey protein. It contains a high amount if immunoglobins to combat inflammation, IGF-1, and it also supports intestinal function. It is a slow absorbing protein so I combine it with my post-workout shake so it will absorb a bit faster. This is the best protein on the market. It is also the most expensive. About $35/lb. I use 6tsp, which is 30g. I recommend that if you start using it, start at 15g and see how that works for you. 15-30g is the ideal range. It will go quickly at 30g/day.

I've noticed the best gains from the Super Plasma Protein coupled with 100% whey isolate. My post-workout shake looks like this:

3 scoops Optimum Nutrition's 100% Gold Standard Whey (72g protein)
6tsp Protein Factory's Super Plasma Protein (30g protein)
140g WMS (carbs)
Calories = 914
Plus 2 cups fat free milk: 180 calories (18g protein)

Total calories: 1094
Total protein: 120g

To be honest, your post-workout shake will be the most important thing to eat/drink out of the whole day. If you slack off eating your calories and shit all day but you have your post-workout shake down, you WILL gain. Trust me.


Everyone says you have to eat, eat, eat. Eat big to get big. I believed this for a good part of my training. Recently I opposed this train of thought to see what would happen...I was surprised actually. Whether you have a fast metabolism, slow, medium...whether you're an ectomorph, meso, endo...doesn't matter. Eat HEALTHY, eat balanced meals, and you WILL grow. Is that to say you'll grow off of 500 calories a day? Nope.

You know all of the BMI bs floating around? WRONG. You do need calories to build muscle, but you do NOT need 5,000 or 6,000 calories. For God's sake, don't eat over 3,000 calories unless you're over 200 pounds. This is a misconception...eat RIGHT to get BIG. Don't worry about your 30/10/30 per meal or whatever you go by. Carbs and fat CAN be your friend. Eating EXCESS fats and carbs is where you FAIL. Everyone will tell you to eat lots of GOOD carbs and fats, lots of PROTEIN, and also tell you to eat BIG and LOTS AND LOTS of calories. How the hell are you supposed to do all of this? It's HARD. Takes a lot of dedication and discipline and often times people fail.

Nope...not anymore. Because I'm tell you, you do not need to eat big to get big. Ever seen a pro bodybuilder or ANYONE in general on their OFF SEASON?? They are fucking FAT. Plain and simple. Fat as FUCK. They'll eat and eat and eat...YES EAT BIG TO GET BIG IS RIGHT...TO BECOME A BIG FATASS! Don't buy into it. Eat 2,500 calories of good healthy foods, eat your veggies, bland foods are going to be good for you, sorry to say it. Whole wheat, oats, fiber, you have to do it. Canned foods aren't all bad, eat canned chili for example. Eat canned tuna, canned chicken. Chicken breast, salad...eat good, well balanced meals. 6 or 7 meals. 300-400 calories each meal.

Make sure your post-workout shake has a good amount of protein and complex carbs. You will grow if you cut it out of your mind that you need to eat a lot, eat this and that. Drop what you know and open your mind.

Try the Super Plasma Protein I mentioned. If it works, awesome...if it doesn't....well, it WILL work, so there's no answer there. There are many studies on it, and it is some good shit. I've been at this for over 25 years...hard work and dedication will pay off. Feel free to ask any questions. I know I probably missed something or didn't word something right.

bump. tribute to Oldie. and Oldie, i was wondering what % of a person's daily protein intake should be consumed in the first 2 hours after a workout. 120 g post workout may be overkill for a person who weighs 160 lbs....then again, maybe not.

i'm assuming 1g protein per lb body weight or 2g per kg.

[Apollo]

I really think protein/caloric intake differs a lot between individuals. Gaining weight has been an interest of mine since high school (10 years ago....), and I had tried many times unsuccessfully to gain weight. I tried going on high protein diets but I could never put more than 10lbs on my 145lb frame.

What finally worked for me was incorporating a lot of fats into my diet. I would load up salads with olive oil and avocado, eat nuts and seeds, and even switched to whole milk. The results? I went up to 164lbs in ~3 months. Yes, there was some increase in body fat, but I kept a lot of my muscle definition, and my cardio hasn't been affected. Overall it's been a great change for me.

Also, I would never have 120g of protein in any one meal or shake, even post workout. On my small build, that would be literally pissing away money into the toilet, and ruining perfectly good kidneys in the process. Maybe if you are a monster like oldie you'd need that much protein, but for me I would limit myself to 40-50g protein post workout, combined with a lot of carbs to replenish glycogen levels lost during workout.